Tuesday, January 27, 2009

SSPX and the lifting of the excommunications


As usual, if the liberals hate it, it must be a good thing.

Father Z has a ton of info over at his blog:

http://wdtprs.com/blog/ ( as if you really need the link...)

19 comments:

BevansInc said...

You have a lovely blog award waiting for you :)

Mark Tan said...

a sign of contradiction. The liberals shun traditionalism. since they like only what is wrong, traditionalism would only be right.

I pray for the end of Hippiedom

Adrienne said...

OH, my gosh! This is SO PERFECT! You are talented beyond pen and ink - you truly "capture" the Catholic moments!
Keep up the truth as you do in your own way! Thank you, and I have posted your cartoons on my blog - I hope that it is acceptable that they maintain your url. God Bless you!

Anonymous said...

There you go again with your anti-anybodyotherthanyou again. You made them look so angry this time, but I think it's just an extension of your own anger. Maybe the church is big enough for everyone. Ever think Christ welcomed everyone with open arms, oh wait, except for the stubborn headed leaders who couldn't see past their own noses, or the people who stood at the entrance to the temple saying that to come in, you had to do things their way. Hmmm. Sounds kind of familiar.

Paul Nichols said...

Oh, Anonymous, come on. Pointing out the venom of one side shouldn't reflect on the pointer. What I find fascinating is that, on the left, you have people who embrace and "anything goes" Church, but who draw the line at anything that's remotely Catholic in the traditional sense.

There are many out there who act as though the Church has only been around since Vatican II.

The hatred for those on the right is pretty ironic, since it comes from those who claim to worship at the altar of "tolerance".

Mark Tan said...

Anonymous, you are wrong. It is the liberals who think that the Church is not big enough for the traditionalists, it this lot who wants to wipe us out of the Church!

And come on?!? What's this about hiding behind 'anonymous'?

Paul, keep it up. If we cease to be a thorn in the side of liberals, we cease to be truly 'Catholic'.

Paul Nichols said...

You're right on, Mark. They obviously hate having the light of truth shone upon them and their actions.

Anonymous said...

Well, I think there is a middle ground to be had if the two sides could realize the importance of each other. I love the traditional Catholic faith, and I think the SSPX'ers are welcome back, whether they are made to apologize for what they've done or not (silly idea really). But, there is value in a fully participating community, too, and shouldn't be shot down so brutally as seems to be happening more and more.

Jean-remy Duboc said...

>"As usual, if the liberals hate it, it must be a good thing."

With that kind of "us against them" rethoric, Paul, unity is still far from us.
Instead, why don't you choose the path of our Holy Father, who decided to open a door for unity instead of looking for conflict ?
I can't help but wonder what you'd talk about if (and hopefully when) traditionnal liturgy becomes commonplace in the church ?
Maybe you could start talking about the One person that matters : Jesus.
Actually, why don't you go ahead and do that for a change ? Now THAT would be a truly catholic blog.

Paul Nichols said...

"With that kind of "us against them" rethoric, Paul, unity is still far from us."
---------------------------
Jean, forgive me, but "us against them" is exactly the problem we've had for 40 years. "They" don't appreciate anyone trying to bring a little more "Catholicism" into this new faith they've constructed.

These cries for "unity", when coming from the Left, usually mean "please shut up and stop complaining about what we're doing". That's not any kind of unity we're looking for, and one I'm sure that the Holy Father wouldn't want either. He's looking for unity in Faith, not unity in some political-style "big tent" kind of way.

Jean-remy Duboc said...

"These cries for "unity", when coming from the Left, usually mean "please shut up and stop complaining about what we're doing"."
==============

Do you actually see what your write ? The "Left" ??? What on earth IS THAT ?
You think you're in the middle of a politic warfare or what ?? Come ON ! This has to be about Jesus, not some kind of Left/Right Battle for...for what exactly ? I don't know. Do you ?
And, yes, personnaly I would ask "tradition-inclined" catholic like yourself to stop complaining about EVERYTHING we do just because it's not latin, but instead try to have a constructive dialog.
As I said before, I am trying to learn more about the traditional liturgy myself, especially gregorian chant. Are you trying to understand why a more "modern" approach to the liturgy might be relevant to some people ?
I respect the pre-vatican II liturgy even if I don't understand it fully, and if such a mass was celebrated in my diocese, I would probably attend once in a while, because it is beautiful.
In return, I expect the same kind of effort and respect from you and like-minded catholics (you'll notice that I don't write something like "you lot" or "you and your crowd" to talk about you. I have more respect than that for my brothers in faith. Again, I think I respect the same respect from you. I am not part of "the Left" or whatever, I am a catholic, period.)

"That's not any kind of unity we're looking for, and one I'm sure that the Holy Father wouldn't want either."
===============

It's also the unity I want, so why are you so agressive towards me ? You might have been through a lot of frustration and suffering, but I am not responsible for it;in fact I am inviting you along so we can walk on a path of forgiveness.
Are you ready to do that ? I hope so. I pray so.

Paul Nichols said...

It's also the unity I want, so why are you so agressive towards me ?
---------------
Hey, if I've been over the top, please accept my apologies.

If I have been, then it's because I actually DO see the problems as a "us vs. them" issue. I guess that's where the "crowd" issue comes in.

I've seen the disdain that the Left (generally speaking, now) has for our Tradition. I see what some dioceses allow and encourage and what they stamp out in a hurry. That tells you alot right there.

The Church says that there should be Latin Masses, the Left says "Nah."
The Church says that Catholic Colleges should be Catholic, the Left says "No thanks".
The Church says that Catholic politicians should act Catholic, the politicians (all Leftists) say, "Whatever".

The Left rejects foundational issues in the Church (abortion, homosexuality, etc.), while the Right rejects some of the new curtains She's been hanging for the last 40 years.

Mark Tan said...

Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as left or right in the Church. It's either your're a DE FACTO Catholic or not.

A Catholic should abide to the teachings of the Church. By failing to accept these doctrines, a person, by his own will, puts himself outside of the Church.

Nancy Pelosi doesn't think abortion is wrong; she may be de jure Catholic, but not de facto Catholic.

Unity does not mean we would condone what is wrong. Why don't we include those who think necrophilia and bestiality is right into the Church? Unity?

Anonymous said...

I would love to see what the debates were like when Gregorian chant came into being. Pope Gregory coming out and beginning a liturgical movement back then based off what he thought was right and helpful to the worshipping church was probably not taken too well back then. There were probably a lot of people who felt like they were spat upon, as you say Paul.

I think there are extremes on both sides of the issue. We're not talking about doctrinal issues, or even morality issues, but taste issues. The basic beliefs of the Catholic Church - such as the authority of the bible and the doctrinal teaching of the magisterium, the church being one, holy, catholic, and apostolic, belief in the trinity and Jesus being the God-made-man, the sacraments, salvation and grace, and the evil of sin - are to be followed, no doubt. Beyond that, why is it so awful to have a style within it?

I also am learning about the traditional, even Pre-Vatican II church practices. I have been trained in reading and conducting chant choirs. I've reinstituted perpetual adoration in my church and am working on things such as 40 hours or bringing back incense and use of the organ where it fits.

It might be a better use of our time to educate our people as to the importance of an authentic, truly blessed celebration of the liturgy.

Paul Nichols said...

It might be a better use of our time to educate our people as to the importance of an authentic, truly blessed celebration of the liturgy.
================
Sure, but to do so, they first have to be trained about what the liturgy is supposed to be, or rather WHO the liturgy is supposed to be ABOUT. Most people these days think the liturgy is about THEM, and their "community".

Once we get back to what the liturgy is supposed to be about, then we're better equipped to understand what's acceptable and what isn't.

Anonymous said...

Absolutely agreed. Man, do I have some horror stories there. People get upset when we dont have their kids get up at first communion and sing five songs so their parents can take pictures... or when we tell them that Santa cant bring up the baby Jesus and lay Him in the manger on Christmas... or not letting someone from the parish get up and give a 20 minute talk about the cute blessings of mothers on Mother's day. It all has a place (sort of), but NOT in the liturgy. I dont think we're saying anything different here, just going about it different ways. You have a gift Paul. I just wish we (and the global we) could see more eye to eye.

Anonymous said...

Gotta check out this crazy video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tkJEcGNDZ8

Adamgv said...

Check out this new Traditionalist Catholic band that just released their first album.

From what I heard on the samples site, they sound really good.

Introducing the new Christian National Anthem: Guns & Jesus.


http://ccrg.info/cas.htm

Anonymous said...

All I have to say is, the very first liturgy wasn't said in Latin, there were no chants, it was simple and met where the Apostles were at.